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Guidance questions (but your journals do not have to be limited to answering them)
1. What is in common among politicians, poets and craftsmen according to Socrates?
2. Why Socrates thinks he is wiser than them?
3. What does Socrates consider as his contribution to Athens?
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when socrates found out the oracle had pronounced him the wisest of all men in athens he decided to prove the oracle wrong because considered himself ignorant.socrates set on a quest to find somebody wiser than him.he saw politicians craftsmen and poets as people who were wise,so he decided to interrogate them only to find out they were impostors who were not even aware of their own ignorance yet claim to be wise.socrates consider himself wiser than them because he was awre of his own ignorance.
ReplyDeletesocrates quest to find somebody wiser than him resulted in him being criticized and persecuted
although socrates never considered himself a teacher he was able to inspire the youth of athens to use questions to gain knowlege.
socrates believes he is wiser becuase he accepts the fact that he knows nothing.This in turn gives him an open mind and the understanding of the uncertainty of certainty.On the other hand, the jury which was composed of politicans poets and craftsmen,was ignorant because their mind was poisoned when they were younger and nieve and are unaware f their ignorance in other words " they are full of themselves".he atributed to athens the concept of questoning what is labled as the truth and learning from what the question brings.
ReplyDeleteThe thing that is common among politicians, poets and craftsmen is that they all believe they are wiser than any other man. They all felt as though they held a greater knowledge. Socrates felt they were ignorant in believing they were the wisest because they know nothing. Socrates felt that he was wiser since he knows nothing and he doesn't think he knows. His contribution to Athens was to question the truth because more knowledge is gained.
ReplyDeleteIn the Apology socrates was able to uncover the truth about the politicians, poets, and craftsmen by discovering that they felt they knew everything but in all respects knew nothing. socrates on the other hand credited himself for not knowing nothing and not thinking he knew everything. to admit that he knew nothing socrates began to develop a sense that he was indeed wiser than his fellow citizens. instead of having a glass full(not being able to take in more knowledge) socrates glass was empty(being able to take as much knowledge as possible and having the ability to know that he didnt know everything). socrates considering himself to be a gadfly is what he consider as his contribution to athens. he belives that there is noone like him and there will never be noone like him.
ReplyDeleteSocrates' "apology" really isn't an admission of guilt, it is far from that. This is Socrates' defense, not an apology, for he has done nothing wrong. Socrates is accused of not recognizing the gods recognized by the state, having his own gods, and corrupting Athens's youth. Clearly the first two accusations seem to contradict themselves, because later on in the text Meletus accuses Socrates of being an atheist and teaching it as well, something that contradicts the previous accusations of him having his own gods. Socrates explains that he has gained enemies simply because he was trying to seek out other men whom were wiser than he was said to be, (the oracle in Delphi claimed this) and in truth found out that most men who believed they were filled with wisdom, weren't, and were ignorant, and Socrates, as natural, attempted to expose them. He also noted that those individuals held in high esteem were less wise than those whom were not.
ReplyDeleteAfter meeting with a politician, poets, and craftsmen, Socrates determined that they all lacked wisdom. The politician believed himself to be wise, but that was far from the case. The poets wrote many beautiful and brilliant things, but did not understand the meaning of it, and the same went for the craftsmen who were great workers but they believed themselves to be wiser and knowledgeable than they actually were which "overshadowed" their wisdom.
Socrates believed he was wiser than all of them simply because he knows he is not wise and has more to learn. I assume he was modest and did not close his mind or limit it.
His contribution to Athens, in my opinion, was the youth that recognized his ideas and teachings so they may ultimately challenge those in power, seek the truth and obtain the never ending quest for wisdom long after he was gone. After the jury finds him guilty, and sentence him to death, Socrates accepts death as his judgment and says that only the gods know what occurs after death so it would be foolish to fear what one does not know. That was, in my opinion, the most powerful idea in the text itself.
In the Apology by Plato it explains that Politicians, poets and Craftsmen according to Socrates were view as intelligent men . Socrates Found himself listening and asking questions to all of this ‘so called clever men’. Politicians believed they knew everything while poets where best know to ‘say many fine things but they know nothing of what they speak’ Socrates them saw a difference in craftsmen in which he acknowledges he did not know nothing recognizing he can learn from this craftsmen’s. In this case he was right craftsmen had some type of wisdom. But Socrates was wiser because he possess what was the human wisdom. Finding out they where Ignorant and foolish even the one’s consider to had ‘higher philosophical pretensions’ they all were missing the same thing the lack of Knowledge and wisdom.
ReplyDeleteWhat separated Socrates from this man is even though oracles would tell him he is wiser then any man out there. He never claimed it to be.
Throughout this quest Socrates was disliked. They were all afraid of the truth I mean no one likes to be question of their own knowledge. Socrates made statements such as ‘the knowledge of one’s own ignorance and believed that others simply were not aware of their own.
His main contributions I believed were for all human kind his philosophy and teaching became and awareness of knowledge of especially for the youth in Athens.
In Socrates's conversations with the poets, politicians, and craftsmen, a key point in his defense, he finds himself not to be wiser than them in grand terms; Socrates, contrarily, does not find himself to be wise, nor does he find himself even capable of being a teacher to the Athenian youths. No, Socrates fancies himself wiser by default, wiser in his honesty, his truth and his refusal to pose as anything he is not. The negative correlation he draws between the men questions not their talent; the poets craft beautiful poetry and the artisans know their fields of work like no others, this much is certain. What Socrates is attacking is their false sense of wisdom, a shared aspect between the three parties that he finds immediately apparent: Socrates finds nothing but pretension in these perceived "men of wisdom," and reveals them for their inability to understand the words they say. The poets (incapable of even grasping their own works), the artisans (under the impression that they are craftsmen of all aspects of life), and the politicians are baseless imposters in their lofty, warped sense of themselves and their knowledge, and they speak as if they know all. In the end, Socrates finds being possessed of mediocre wisdom (as he often refers to himself) to be much more virtuous than having a large wisdom that is untrue, baseless, and obnoxious, and he is right.
ReplyDeleteJohnVeranes
Socrates saw that among the people that held a privileged position on society such as; the politicians, poets and craftsmen, some common aspects that all of them shared. It was the big ego the possessed. They thought that the knowledge and the capacities of their professions were enough, that they had achieved a supreme knowledge, which gave them the ability to feel secure, even when their intellect wasn’t significant in other disciplines.
ReplyDeleteSocrates saw how there men lacked humbleness of intellect; he was very surprised by seeing how these men cared about the welfare of their economy and appearance. They ignored the needs of their spiritual beings. These men were more worried about, what society might think about them. On the other hand Socrates values the importance of searching new intellectual challenges, and it’s not afraid of asking questions. He sees himself as guidance for others. He persuades others to learn how to think, and by doing this he separates himself with the other egocentric men of his time. He cares about what it means to be wise, and if so to confront all the deeds that follow. The fact that Socrates doesn’t hesitate to interrogate politicians or military leaders gives the Athenians a lesson. He ignores what his mind tells him to do, and cares little about social status. He welcomes people who are willing to hear him, he imparts his views about the world with the youth. As an old man he uses years and lessons, he teaches the younger guys to be brave and use the mind. Not to be only taught to follow orders, but to analyze them as well. Socrates with his deep questioning on moral and political manners, opened the gates of intelligence of the citizens of Athens.
It seems to me most of thes comments get to the general idea that Socrates was a man with knowledge. And he tries very hard to make good use of it by revealing the true that can help the people of Athens in their every day live.
ReplyDeleteIn Plato's Apology. Socrates finds himself standing trial of corrupting the Athenian youth with teaching philosophical theories which opposed those of the state. Socrates claimed to be the victim of slander rather then the perpetrating the act of which he was accused of.
ReplyDeleteFinding himself perplexed after being told that a prophet of the gods claimed him to be the wisest man around, Socrates sought to find a man wiser then himself.
In doing so, he found himself angering many members of the Athenian intellectual community due to his methods. First interviewing a politician. assuming that the politician would be one of the wisest men in athens. After a short while Socrates discovered that, while, in deed this member of high society was regarded as very wise, he in fact, had no real wisdom bare. After this, he spoke with poets, craftsmen and other politicians. Again, while all being well versed in their areas of expertise, none could offer true insight into the level of understanding Socrates Sought.
He concluded, " the men most in repute were all but the most foolish; and that some inferior men were really wiser and better.
He believe that his true insight came from that fact that he did have a false misconception of being wise. Humility afforded him the ability to keep seeking more knowledge.
The resentment from his fellow citizens who's wisdom he discredited, Socrates felt,
was the origin of the malicious accusations of which where brought before the court.
While he said it was true that wealthy young men, with no real occupations, who took joy in being witness to his methods of disproving others wisdom, would follow him during his inquires, he could hardly be found at fault if they went about attempting to improperly mimic his methods. In short, upsetting their fellow Athenians who would then lay blame at their would be teacher.
He later states that if he was proclaimed by the oracle to be the wisest man around, then, why disobey what god obviously wanted him to do, which was to share his wisdom with the Athenians that sought it out?
Since philosophy is all about asking questions rather the answers, I leave you with the question that has been in occupying my mind since I finished Palto's apology:
What makes a person wise? The fact that he is "educated" or that, with humility, succumbs to the realization that he is in fact, Not wise at all. But with the acknowledgment leaves his mind malleable to the lessons learned along life's path?
Why Socrates thinks he is wiser than them?
ReplyDeleteThere are some evidences that Socrates is wiser than a politician...
One is while Scrates was examining he was keep thinking that a politician was not really wise, he thought he was wise though.I thought it was not that easy for Socrates to keep thinking a politician was not really wise when
they had a conversation and I felt Socrates thought him from different point of view.
The other is Socrates tried to explain to a politician was not really wise.Generally speaking,it is rude somebody to explain to somebody that he or she is not wise,but Socrates...I thought he was very brave and honest since people do not like saying negative things.
The more I read "Apology",the more I got confused...I do not know if my English was not good enough to read it or Native speakers felt the same like me.
In this open passage Plato is found in court trying to defend himself from false accusations in fount of his peers, poets, and other philosophers. He see's that the task at hand is not simple to convince everyone that he is not responsible for the accusations. He latter states that Socrates is an "evil-doer, and a curious person who searches into things under the earth and in heaven, and he makes the worst appear the better cause and he teaches the aforesaid doctrines to others" Socrates states that he can "walk on air" and Plato is trying tell the Athenians that that is simply false.
ReplyDeleteislam douban.
Politicians, poets, and craftsman all have in common a sense of deficiency when it comes to the common man. Socrates Believed people in These Professions sought out to be greater than your average person But put to the test these people knew nothing and only proved their ignorance. Socrates believed he was wiser than them because he had no shame telling the truth and the whole truth accepting his faults as strengths as he quoted "Unless bt the force of eloquence they mean the force of truth, for then I do indeed admit that I am eloquent". Socrates consider himself as a contribution to Athens for the main reason of questioning everything even your own faults for you shall grow from it and become wiser.
ReplyDeleteMy argument of what Plato is saying is that he is ignorant to many subjects and that he is not the wisest man. To serve a god you need to be known as the wisest man and he felt that he deceived him by doing so. Plato also argued that he had discussions with other politicians and upon speaking to one so-called wise man he noticed he was not wise at all. Plato also accused Socrates of his evil doings and that he made them seem like they were good. I think Plato is thinking more in depth about accusations from the past.
ReplyDeleteSamantha Jones
ReplyDeleteWhen it came up to the answering of questions on the part of who is the corrupter of youth and old when it comes up to philosophy and the growth of ones mind, the wise were dumbed down by their answers.
"The laws" Not once did one of the wise men of enforcing the false laws upon politics think of his own points but was stubborn and short tempered, when words were brought and spoken about them and there fall in the answer they hated him for his thinking and awareness of their actions.
He had made more enemies within the room just for pointing out that they weren't the wise, in fact they were the dumb. They spoke for the people for they believed that the people could not speak for themselves and always their answers were on the right in other his were wrong and even though they allowed him to speak on his own and lend an ear. He at that point was considering himself to be wiser, for they were blind and he was noticing there failed arguments... but still he still knew he wasn't completely powerful, wise, and knowledgeable so he was proud of what he did know.
Well, Within the text he examines the minds of different types of people such as politicians, poets, and craftsmen , said to be wise men for there knowledge in their traits, but it is dangerous for them to extend out word to say they know more then they do for they will be mistaken to someone that already knows their limits
Even though these "Wise men" were said to have proper and extensive knowledge and knew how to carry about in life and were to be the mist open minded to the arts and politics, it was noticed that they the people had weakness.
They weren't as wise as they said to be, the artists seemed to be the wisest but had the same problem as the poets.
The politicians always believed that even though they were wrong that they themselves are right, making them stubborn and power hungry. Accusing some that questioning the laws of nature, gravity and if it is possible to fly or to walk on water to be mumbling and influencing people of older age or of youth to go mad and insane over something that is impossible and is not of importance.
Men said to be wise were taking offence to his findings and made enemies or his of the men said to be the most knowledgeable of them all only to find they knew nothing and their purity was a lie.
In this excerpt Socrates finds out that the Oracle has proclaimed him to be the wisest man in the city. Socrates disagrees and sets off on a quest to find the wisest. He interviews many people. Politicians, Craftsman & Poets all of whom come across and hold themselves to be wise. After interviews are held Socrates finds that they are all impostors and realizes that he is wiser. Why? I think he sees that he is wiser because he is self aware of his limits when other men do not know their limits.
ReplyDeleteWith the knowledge Socrates discovers on his quest; he is then persecuted and criticized but in the end. The city youth find that Socrates is wise and without wanting to teach Socrates becomes the teacher. The Youth learn to gain knowledge one must ask questions.